Hello readers, please see directly below for the previous conversations:
Thank you for your response. It was very entertaining to read. I know that you believe there are some things which are morally objective. I recall an earlier conversation where you also added adultery to that list. Does that still hold for you, based on the breaking on a solemn contract?
I would disagree with your changing definitions when it comes to murder, but would agree with theft. And yes, rape is never acceptable under any circumstance. For murder, I would say the ancient and prevailing definition is willfully killing an innocent human being or taking innocent human life. Therefore, self-defense is not murder because the guilty party is a threat to life.
To your order/chaos comment, I think that even chaos has purpose. If everything is in total order in the material world, then there is no change. If there is no change, then all is without motion/dead. So, chaos is a necessity in a material universe to keep things going. Yet, I find it interesting that there seems to be just the right amount of entropy to keep our solar system in tune and keep Earth life-hospitable.
I must admit, I did not know anything about Dyson Swarms or Type III Civilizations, so we are out of my nerdy depths. Dyson Swarm sounds like an awesome vacuum cleaner name though…
I think order without progress can be a tremendous evil, even within our own society. This is what radial conservatives are trying to lockdown and it causes the poor and marginalized to be forgotten. On the same hand, radical liberals embody pure chaos to the status quo. Thus, I lean more moderate in my politics. But enough of that for now.
Why does Jupiter exist? If human beings really are the center of the universe. (And I believe we are, as we are made in God’s image and likeness). Jupiter is gigantic and is a wonderful shield for Earth against large space debris. I think that is a good use, in relation to man.
Some may object to the previous claim saying that the universe is gigantic, and it is pompous to think that it was created for mankind/Earth. If mankind is the center of the universe, why is the universe so darn big? In order for the universe to continue to exist, it would need to be absolutely massive, and it is. If the entire universe were the size of the solar system, it could only last for a few seconds to a few minutes. If it was the size of the Milky Way Galaxy, perhaps a few hours or a couple days. For life to develop on Earth, evolutionarily-speaking, we would need billions of years. For that to be possible, then the universe as it exists would need to be tremendously vast. So, rather than disputing my thesis, I think the size of the universe is a necessity for human life.
I would also say that your metaphysical conundrum is solved with the following statement: human beings are the only thing created for their own sake. Absolutely everything in this gigantic universe comes into existence and then is changed into some other mode of being, materially. A piece of wood becomes charcoal. A sun goes supernova. A bunny rabbit becomes food for a hound. The energy of sunlight is converted into fuel for a plant. And so on. If theism, and particularly the Christian claim, is true, then human beings are the only beings that do not fit into this cycle fully. Namely, we have eternal souls that come into existence but never stop existing after the fact. I believe that this can be shown by human reason alone, and there are many arguments out there. In fact, I think my next post might be about the immortality of the soul…
When I speak of telos: purpose, meaning, and goal are all in relationship to God and to man. When I speak of telos for man, the purpose, meaning, and goal is communion with God. So, the various tools around us have their own telos but they do not exist for themselves alone. Some things are finite, like a tree, which can live hundreds of years producing oxygen. Other things are finite, like a bullet or a missile, and have a very particular purpose in mind. Though, a tree, an animal, and a bullet are not conscious of their telos. For there to be a true telos, there would have to be an infinitely powerful Source directing these things, either primarily (creation and/or miracles) or through secondary processes (human action, evolution, etc.).
Telos is always an inherent property, based on the nature of a thing. In discovering the true nature of a thing (metaphysics), we are studying the teleology of a thing. It is the farthest thing from subjectivity you can get. Thus why many relativists cringe at the mention of “natural law.”
To your last statement: “Serving a purpose seems to require a value judgement.” I do not agree. There are billions of things that happen every day, even on this Earth. But each and every single encounter, reaction, etc. all serves the purpose of continuing the motion of the universe. And as long as the universe moves, so do we.